I interviewed Sam Bush, one of my favorite musicians in the universe, in February 2001. He's one of the funniest men I've ever met; he's got a keen sense of humor, and a great, spontaneous laugh! Again, some of his wonderful anecdotes appear in my article about Béla Fleck for bluegrass now.

C: What are you working on right now?
S: Right now I am working on assembling and rehearsing music for a week-long performance with the Augusta Ballet Company. We're doing compositions that were done by New Grass Revival, Strength in Numbers, my own records… a couple that Béla and I wrote together… so working on mainly an instrumental show that will be done behind the Augusta Ballet. And the ballet is based on the story of the Hatfields and the McCoys.
C: I actually talked with Scott Vestal earlier in the week, and he told me about that, and then I got a postcard this morning, I guess courtesy of your publicist, who is really on the ball. How's it going? Are you working at all with the Ballet yet?
S: Well, we have yet to rehearse together; on our end up here, we're working on the music. What we have to do is just – for instance on tunes where we may have improvised on the record? They MUST be exactly the same length, because the choreography is being worked out to those recorded versions. When we play 'em live, we have to play the same number of bars in the song. So we're just getting it together on our end. We'll have three good long days of rehearsal next week, and then on the 12th, we'll go down to Augusta and start it up!
C: Do you recall the first time you heard Béla Fleck on the banjo?
S: Yes! I was recording with Butch Robins, one of the best banjo pickers you ever heard as well. Butch was making a record called Fragments of My Imagination. There was one tune Butch had written on the mandolin. So he played that tune on the mandolin, and I just thought it was probably Butch on the najo, on this tape, when I later heard it. And he said, 'No.' He said, 'That's the best banjo player I ever heard. That's a young guy named Béla Fleck.' And I thought, 'Well, the guy must be excellent if Butch Robins has him playing banjo on his own record.' Then Béla hired me to play fiddle on his first album. He was still living in Boston then.
C: That was in 1979, if my research is correct.
S: I believe that's when it was, yes.
C: He asked you to play on his first recording for Rounder in 1979. What do you remember about working with him for the first time? What did you think when you heard the material and arrangements?
S: I knew right off the bat that the guy wrote really hard tunes to play, that's for sure. I was just impressed with his maturity on the instrument even back then. It was as if there was nothing he couldn't do on that instrument, and it's still that way when I hear him.

C: In 1981, you asked Béla to join the New Grass Revival. You had to woo him away from Spectrum. How did you do that?
S: Well, there was no wooing, really. People go where they want to go, and play with who they want to play with. As it turns out, Spectrum was talking about breaking up anyway, but I guess once Béla left, that hastened the inevitable breakup. Jimmy's a godd friend of mine, and we didn't want to step on anyone's toes, but when you're looking at reforming the Newgrass Revival, and replacing a heavyweight like Courtney Johnson, there seemed to be only one place to go, and that was to ask Béla. Ironically, Béla and Pat Fleck hadn't met when they both joined John and I, but we decided we had to go after the best players we know.

C: Do you have a memory of those wild years with the Revival – that was, what, nine years?
S: Well, that was nine years with Béla, and nine years before he got there – I was there eighteen years.
C: Yeah, I remember seeing you at Nancy Talbott's old Berkshire Mountain Bluegrass Festival up in Massachusetts. That was one of my first exposures to the New Grass Revival, and newgrass in general, and let me tell you, you are one of the heroes of my formative years!
S: YEAH!
C: But anyhow, I'm wondering…. During the Béla years, so to speak, what is your strongest impression, something that has stayed with you all this time, about his contribution to newgrass?
S: One, is just his dedication to further himself on that instrument. It's always been amazing to watch. And of course, when he joined the band, we right off the bat had a person who was not only a prolific writer but a very good writer of instrumentals as well. It was interesting watching… Béla's style changed as he progressed in the Revival, and by the time we ended the band, he had the progressive tunes that he was writing for the Flecktones. Basically, Béla wrote so many tunes we couldn't possibly do them all. He needed another outlet to bring this vast amount of tunes he'd written to life.
C: Gaudreau said that when Béla lived with him in Lexington, a lot of the time he'd just be holed up in his room writing, with a vision of what he would do after Spectrum later, much later even.
S: Sure. We jokingly and lovingly would often [begins to laugh] when we got to the hotel, make sure that Béla would be on a different floor from us! Because he was going to practice all day. And the banjo really… you can hear it!
C: It's not one of the daintier instruments, is it?
S: It was totally out of love and respect [continues to laugh] but we just didn't need to hear him all day. [getting serious] But he's that serious. And obviously it has led to greatness for him, and he STILL is that dedicated to that instrument. I don't think he has time to practice as much as he'd like, but he sure is dedicated to furthering himself on it, that's for sure.

C: Since Béla was from NYC, were there things he didn't understand about the bluegrass community, particularly as he traveled in the South? Was he at a disadvantage coming from a big city?
S: No, but to be honest, by the time Béla got to the NGR, he'd already been traveling for years with Tasty Licks and then Spectrum. He was living in Lexington, so he'd already become a Southerner so to speak. But he didn't go through too much culture shock by the time he got with us – just from us.
C: Jimmy told me he blew up a blow dryer in Brussels because he didn't know he needed an adapter, and Jerry Douglas told me about the oil light on his car, which he constantly ignored. It sounds like his head was in banjoland all the time, and it took a while for all the mundanities to filter in.
S: When he first moved to Nashville, he owned a TV, but it just stayed in the closet.
C: He seems like he's very devoted to that banjo.
S: It's not just banjo. I don't know how many people know what a great guitar player he is. And he can take a mandolin and play one, he's a good mandolin player, but Béla's a very good guitar player, playing with fingerpicks. As a matter of fact, one of the tunes we're doing on the ballet is one that Béla played guitar on, on one of his records; it's one called "Moondust".
C: He's spoken kind of self-deprecatingly about his guitar aptitude in some of his interviews.
S: He doesn't play guitar very much actually, but he certainly knows his way around on one.

C: Let's talk about Drive. It consistently appears on his peers' lists of legendary recordings. What do you remember about recording Drive with him?
S: Just the real joyful noise. It was a joyful experience, because we were all… we'd been playing these kinda shows around, playing at the Birchmere in D.C. with Tony and all of us, so we had been playing with that ensemble – Jerry, Tony, Stuart, Mark Schatz, and I, and Béla – for a few years at that point, but it was mainly a vocal show with instrumentals. And Béla dug playing in that ensemble, so he put us together to play on Drive. Typically speaking, Béla's tunes can be more difficult than some other tunes you play, and I just remember… I think we all had a few difficult moments when we didn't think we were ever gonna get these things right. The end result was very rewarding. At the end of the day, you could look back and know that you'd been part of something special.

C: In the ten-year period between Drive and Bluegrass Sessions, how had he grown as a musician? What had changed about him?
S: If anything, he's maybe a little easier-going on the musicians! [laughs] You know what's interesting? I didn't realize that ten years had passed between those records. He obviously has gotten much more progressive with the Flecktones, and all the different types of music that he can do. If anything it seems that he's been able to relax and enjoy the bluegrass part of it, maybe a little more on this new record, because in some ways maybe the tunes aren't as complicated as some of the tunes on Drive. In a way, and I don't know if he would agree with this, it's like he's relaxed and very much enjoys getting to play bluegrass now, because back when he was doing Drive, we were still in Newgrass Revival, and he was playing bluegrass style music. I think now when he comes through, he can relax and enjoy it more.
C: What do you think his motivation was, to make the Bluegrass Sessions album?
S: Hard for me to say, but I think the motivation was the same as we all had to want to do it, and that was that it's just a joyful noise, and you're together with your friends. Whatever Béla does, there's a spirit of camaraderie. I think he just wanted to get back with his goofy bluegrass buddies!

C: Tony Rice had fun with "Sanctuary" on Drive. What track on the Bluegrass Sessions album was the most challenging for you?
S: I don't know. They were all challenging. In this way, Béla recorded them all to digital, and we didn't overdub; Béla just digitally edited. And that was the difference. On Drive, we would sit and overdub, and repair our parts if we made a mistake. On this one, we just played and played and played, and then did many versions of the tunes, and then Béla could edit in the sections that he liked the best. It's more fun to sit and keep playing all at once, rather than stop and fix your part. I enjoyed that process. What I wouldn't enjoy would be to sit and meticulously pick it all out. It's easy for him. He likes to do that.

C: Which bluegrass musician would YOU like to see perform or collaborate with Béla Fleck?
S: Uhhhh…. [thinks for a moment] All us guys! [laughs] I mean, I don't know! He's played with everyone. I don't know who else it would be.
C: Jerry said Ralph Stanley… who else? Ummm…
S: Actually, I wish Courtney was still around for him to play with.
C: Yeah, that would have been something. Did they know each other?
S: Yeah, yeah. Courtney really admired Béla's playing, and I think it was mutual. When he joined the Revival, I think Béla discovered what interesting parts Courtney was playing all along.
C: I lived in Hawaii at the time, but I came down for IBMA in 1996, and we drove down for the Ryman show, the benefit after Courtney died, and that was just… ahhhhhh....
S: Oh, neat. Well, Tony and Béla did kind of a Courtney-style thing that was really neat.
C: That show was so magical. I loved to see the whole bluegrass community come together like that. It was really great. Let me ask you… You've done so much to further progressive bluegrass. What is your opinion of the musical purists who won't listen to any Béla Fleck because he's "gone over the line", musically?
S: All I can say is that's why Baskin-Robbins has 31 flavors. We don't all have to like the same thing. [laughing in a 'geez can't you see it it's OBVIOUS' kind of tone] It's just music! Nothing to get excited about! Béla's in the world of jazz more than he's in the world of bluegrass, and there are probably jazz purists that wouldn't necessarily like his instrument or the band that he's in, but there they are playing fantastic music. But you could have someone that just might not care for that.
C: Yeah, some people bitch and bitch: "It ain't bluegrass if it ain't got a banjo". One of the threads on an Internet list recently has been about jazz, and how Béla and the likes of Béla are not "serious" jazz musicians…
S: I would like for those people to sit in the audience and see Béla trade phrases with Chick Corea, and then tell me he can't play jazz. I have had the opportunity to be onstage and watch Béla and Chick play a duet – well, I was standing on side-stage, but I was part of the show – and I remember telling Jerry Douglas, 'I've finally heard someone that can truly trade licks with Béla – and it takes Chick Corea to do it!' I was awful proud of him that night.

C: Do you see yourself as his older brother?
S: [laughs uproariously] Well, sorta – I dunno if - I haven't thought of it that way so much myself, but we are musical brothers.
C: To see him have come this far… as somebody who knows him so well, and as his friend, you must be terribly proud of him.
S: Well, I am! He's accomplished a lot, and it's because he's gotten out and worked his ASS off for it. These things don't just pop in your lap. Béla's worked really hard, especially with the Flecktones. The entire Nineties, he just worked himself as hard as he could. So it's starting to pay off for him.

C: Can you tell me a little about your experiences collaborating on writing songs with him?
S: We haven't really written a lot. When we got together to write a tune for Strength in Numbers, we had the idea that each guy would write ONE TUNE with the other four guys. That way, we would totally have co-written equally ten tunes in a five-man band. Béla and Mark figured this out, and that's the way we did it. The day Béla and I got together to write OUR tune, we had a fun day! We wrote four tunes! I don't even know if he remembered them, but I put 'em all on a tape, and I've ended up recording them all over the years! We haven't written together that much but it came down really easily when we did.
C: For a songwriter, I guess it comes naturally, but to have to be that creative on demand, and put something together in a single day…
S: Well, somebody said once 'You don't make up anything, you just channel new combinations.' Some days are better than others. We had a lucky day.

C: Though the post-breakup careers of all of you have been brilliant, fans all over the world continue to mourn the demise of the New Grass Revival. In a 1997 Dirty Linen article, you said: "All the Revival people felt we were very successful at music; we just weren't always successful as four business partners." Can you expand on that?
S: You take four musicians, and you stick 'em in a room, and you find out no one was a business major. It's a four-way partnership, and we truly were… and every decision has to have a vote. By the time we ended, we weren't agreeing all the time on business matters. Music was never a problem. Music wasn't ever a problem. We didn't really have musical disagreements, we just… we were working really hard, and we were trying to be part of the country music radio scene, and we were actually getting somewhere… I think we just worked ourselves outta having fun. Speaking personally, I needed a break from all the business, so I went and played in Emmylou's band five years and didn't have to worry about anything except for, 'What time's the show?' It was much different music after playing in the Revival, but I learned a lot. It would be interesting if all four guys in the Revival wrote a book about the same thing… it would be four different books. Different perspectives from each different person. But as I said earlier, Béla was just writing so many tunes that we couldn't accommodate him. We were mainly a vocal band. He needed an outlet for all these tunes he was writing.
C: Yeah, somebody who is a big Béla fan gave me a great anecdote… she said 'I remember seeing them onstage, and Sam would say, 'All right, Béla's gonna play another instrumental.' And John would moan, 'Aw, does he have to do another one?' And Sam would say, 'Yeah, it's in his contract, we've gotta let him…'
S: We were just kidding! [cackles] We had fun.

C: Anything else that you can think of, any memory that defines Béla as a bluegrass musician?
S: I just remember when he moved to Lexington, it wasn't just to play with Spectrum… it was to learn how to play like JD Crowe. Absolutely. He was a disciple of JD Crowe, and by damn he was serious about wanting to get it right. He wanted to play bluegrass as good as JD. He seriously, seriously studied Crowe. And he's well-versed in it. That's the thing about him. He's got his own style, but he can quote you Earl Scruggs licks all day. He knows as much about Earl as anyone.
C: What do you think Earl thinks about Béla's skills and abilities?
S: To my knowledge, he really likes Béla AND his playing. I know he likes Béla very much personally, and he admires Béla's playing a lot. And he knows how much Béla loves HIS playing, and how much time he has put into learning to play like Earl. Because the bottom line is if you're a banjo picker and you can't pick it like Earl, you can't pick!

C: When will you be playing with him again?
S: Geez, I don't know… I guess Merlefest, and then I know we have some Bluegrass Sessions jobs in May in the Kansas area. It was fun, and once again, the thrill is old pals just getting together. It's funny, as progressive as we all play in the different types of music we do, when we get together with that band, bluegrass is the most fun thing to do.
C: Terrific! Thank you SO much! I think that wraps it up... [tape ends]